Today’s guest is Vladimir Kosarevsky – former candidate for municipal deputy, director of a ‘smart library’, refugee and author of the ‘Galician Stories’ channels on Telegram and YouTube.

Vladimir left Russia for Spain in January 2023.

Spain, 05.03.2024 — NEW MOSCOW. We can’t help talking about the situation around Navalny, because at the moment many people who are worried about Russia and are abroad are holding rallies in memory of the opposition politician.

Vitaly Ataev Troshin: I heard that you organized an event in Spain. Can you tell us about it and share your thoughts on the news of Alexei Navalny’s death?

Vladimir Kosarevsky: Hello everyone. Let’s start with the recent tragic events. Just two days ago, we received the devastating news of Alexei Navalny’s passing. However, all indications point towards foul play. Throughout his imprisonment, there were numerous attempts on his life. It seems they’ve finally succeeded in silencing him, especially with the upcoming elections just around the corner in Russia. It’s absolutely horrifying. Frankly, I never imagined it would come to this. I held onto hope that they wouldn’t dare take such drastic measures. But alas, they’ve shown their willingness to eliminate anyone who dares to oppose or even question the criminal regime ruling Russia.

— Did you participate in Navalny’s rallies when they were held in Moscow?

— Yes, back in 2012, I was just an ordinary librarian, at the lowest rung, sitting in my department and following events online. I vividly remember how people poured into the streets for the rallies organized by Navalny’s team. As soon as my shift ended, I rushed to join them, sensing the urgency of the moment. Even then, it was clear to me that our country was headed in the wrong direction under our leadership. I felt compelled to show my opposition to the status quo. I recall my brief involvement in those protests. Unfortunately, by the time I arrived, it was almost over. Nonetheless, I stood among the crowd and raised my voice. However, my participation was short-lived because shortly after, I was appointed as the director of the library. Such activities didn’t align with the image of an employee of one of Moscow’s main libraries. Although my beliefs and principles remained unchanged, I felt constrained from taking part in further protests out of fear of jeopardizing everything I had worked so hard to achieve. At that time, I was also involved in organizing international events and festivals for the LGBT community as a member of the Board of the Russian Federation of LGBT Sports. But I had to put a halt to all that as it conflicted with my position as the head of a municipal library. The constant need to compromise and silence yourself out of fear of repercussions is deeply unsettling. It’s a feeling that many people are experiencing right now. The state’s strategy seems to revolve around instilling fear in its citizens, rendering them powerless and voiceless. I see the footage online of people laying flowers at monuments dedicated to the victims of repression in various Russian cities. It’s incredibly significant when Russians express their dissent in this manner; it’s an act of heroism. These small acts of defiance by people who oppose the current state of affairs in the country are crucial. Feeling a sense of solidarity, despite being miles away in Spain, I decided to organize a similar action to protest against the Putin regime. Although our city has only 300,000 inhabitants, it boasts a significant Russian-speaking diaspora and a large number of Ukrainians. We gathered on the steps of the MARCO museum, a former prison, which I found incredibly symbolic. There, we sat with posters, lit candles, and placed fresh flowers, united in our protest.

— So, not only Russians attended, but Ukrainians too? Were there a lot of people?

— Among the participants, there were mostly Russians and one Spaniard. It’s worth noting that Ukrainians expressed words of support as they passed by, although they refrained from actively joining the protest. Participating in actions organized by Russians is considered politically sensitive for them. I completely understand their position. Not everyone feels comfortable openly supporting such initiatives, particularly given the complexities of Russian-Ukrainian relations amidst the ongoing conflict. It’s a delicate matter; while we can engage in normal interactions, public displays of solidarity are often avoided. Regarding the locals’ response to our protest, the Spaniards showed tremendous warmth towards us. Many stopped to express their support, some even had tears in their eyes, which was deeply moving to witness. Spaniards tend to empathize with democratic opposition leaders. They understand the challenges faced by the world under Putin’s rule.

— I believe the situation outside of our countries is quite different, and there’s more harmony in those environments. Many individuals recognize that had Navalny been allowed to run in 2018, he could have potentially prevented the onset of the war. Now, shifting gears a bit, I’m intrigued by your background with the LGBT Sports Federation in Moscow. You moved to Moscow for university, correct? And then you decided to stay? Could you share more about your story and your identity as an LGBT individual? Did you foresee Moscow as a better environment for you? Why did you decide to go there?

— You know, I was in a very interesting situation in Novosibirsk. It’s my hometown, where I spent the first 20 years of my life. It was there that I first encountered the gay community, back in the late ’90s. It was an intriguing time, with two or three gay clubs, which was an astonishing number back then. There were vibrant parties, and on TV, artists like Shura, Tatu, Oscar, and Nikita were celebrated, many of whom openly expressed their sexuality. Some of them were immensely popular. Even Boris Moiseyev performed sold-out concerts at our Opera House, the city’s main venue. While there was certainly some official homophobia, it wasn’t as pronounced. However, street-level homophobia was more prevalent. I experienced hostility firsthand when I dyed my hair white and then red. Standing out in any way invited aggression. Every day, I felt unsafe in my city, in my neighborhood, simply because of my views, interests, and refusal to conform to societal norms. If I wanted to express myself authentically, I had to leave for a larger city. In Russia, Moscow seemed like the inevitable destination for anyone seeking a more inclusive environment.

— What kind of behavior do you mean? I’m trying to understand from the perspective of someone unfamiliar with LGBT issues. What specific rights were you seeking? Did you want to walk around naked among a bunch of other men? Or did you want to be understood and respected and not be beaten up? Can you clarify what LGBT is?

— The term LGBT encompasses everyone. It’s not about a specific type of person born a certain way. When I was 16 to 18, I sought self-expression through art and my appearance. I wanted to dye my hair, wear unconventional clothes, things that weren’t typical for someone my age at the time. And I did. It wasn’t about walking around half-naked; that’s not the point. I never saw people walking around half-naked on the streets.

— Dyeing your hair isn’t exclusive to LGBT persons. It’s about anyone wanting to make a change in their lives. When you were 16, there were only a couple of clubs in Novosibirsk. So, did individuals who identified as queer only go to clubs? When you realized your identity, where did you go? Were there other places to go and socialize in Novosibirsk aside from clubs?

— No, that’s precisely the issue. There was no community, no organizations addressing LGBT rights or similar matters. And it was a huge problem because there was a lack of information. By the age of 12, I already understood what was happening to me. But where could I find information? In libraries? Did anyone at school discuss different aspects of identity? There was absolutely no guidance, no resources, no support. I remember my mom giving me a book for boys, which covered male hygiene and such, but it didn’t address relationships or identity. So, you understand something about yourself, yet you realize there’s no space for you in this world. No one is ready to accept you, and there’s no reliable information available. For instance, how to navigate potential health-related issues. Because we do face numerous risks. No one tells you anything about it. You have to figure it out on your own, out in the world. At 12 years old, you might understand yourself, but you don’t know how to behave or if it’s okay to discuss it. Those were taboo topics.

— What do you think children aged 12-16 need to hear? How can we prevent them from resorting to suicide?

— It’s crucial for them to receive words of support, especially from the people closest to them who can notice any changes happening within them. Children should be prepared for the process of sexual maturation. They need to be informed about the changes that take place in their bodies, emotions, and sensations. Parents, schools, and society as a whole should work together to equip children for this stage of life. That’s how it should ideally work in a normal society. I can only imagine the struggles teenagers face today, particularly with the introduction of homophobic laws. They can’t openly discuss these issues because it’s deemed as promoting an agenda. They’re often marginalized and subjected to discrimination. This pressure can push them to extremes, and unfortunately, some may even contemplate suicide. Such cases are indeed a reality. Fortunately, there are various educational initiatives available, including those on platforms like Telegram. I recall one project called Children 404. They offered invaluable support to teenagers grappling with the realization of their sexual orientation, offering guidance on navigating a homophobic environment and coping with challenges. They provided essential information and psychological support during what can be an incredibly challenging period. Even in Europe, where attitudes are more progressive, these issues remain complex. But in Russia, where conformity is often expected, it’s even more daunting. Anyone who deviates from the norm, whether they’re LGBT, disabled, or simply perceived as too intellectual, is often met with hostility and discrimination.

— You know, this is a fascinating topic. I’m just trying to understand the concerns of Russian citizens who may not want LGBT individuals in their families. What are they afraid of? Gay people in Russia who aren’t open about their sexuality still go about their daily lives—they work, pay taxes, make purchases, and contribute to the country. Many may even participate in environmental initiatives and support Putin, perhaps until his last days. That’s the reality they’re living in. So why is there such aversion towards them? I can’t grasp what they’ve done wrong. Moreover, we’re aware that there are LGBT members within the Russian government and even in the same media outlets that promote military actions or the war in Ukraine. We’ve seen prominent LGBT figures in Russia expressing such a position. He was recently dismissed from Russia Today.

— Krasovsky?

— Yes, that’s the one. What’s your take on individuals like these who not only fail to improve the situation for LGBT people in Russia but seem to exacerbate it? To many Russians, it appears that LGBT individuals are either depicted as nude men or associated with radical ideologies like advocating violence against Ukrainians or bombing others while elevating themselves. How do you view these individuals, and do you have any connections with them at all?

— The concentration of hatred towards LGBT individuals isn’t surprising, given the current philosophy of our country. It seems that our society is built around this sentiment, aiming to channel all the anger, resentment, and hostility towards a specific group of people. It’s a convenient tactic: by targeting a particular group, the authorities can deflect attention from other pressing issues. We LGBTs are considered extremists in Russia—rainbows are banned, names on kindergartens are erased, and even the multicolored manes of toy unicorns are painted over…

— It’s truly troubling.

— It’s sheer madness. People seem incapable of expressing themselves without resorting to hatred and anger towards others. There’s a deep-rooted fear of delving into one’s own psyche and confronting the abyss within. What’s happening to our society? It’s as if we’re afflicted by some grave illness.

— Clearly, the situation for LGBT teenagers in Russia isn’t favorable. But what about their parents? Let’s say they’re understanding and accepting. They realize their child is gay or lesbian and want to offer support. What’s the best course of action? Should they consider leaving Russia immediately, or is it possible to find acceptance here?

— First and foremost, parents need to show that their love for their child is unconditional. Regardless of who they are, the child should always feel loved, cared for, and protected. Only then can a healthy, trusting relationship within the family be nurtured. How did I cope? Well, there was a lack of understanding between my parents and me. But perhaps it was partly my fault—I was very uncompromising. I believed that if I identified as gay, I should act accordingly. I wasn’t going to sugarcoat anything or spare anyone’s feelings. This is who I am, and I’m not sorry for it. But at 12-16 years old, how could I possibly build a trusting relationship with my parents when there was no foundation for it?

— At 16, many people struggle to establish relationships—it’s a challenging period of adolescence, regardless of sexual orientation.

— Exactly. People go through life, and then adolescence hits, and suddenly everything comes to light. But why don’t we have a solid foundation for healthy relationships from the start? I understand my generation, and I don’t blame my parents. They lived through a tumultuous time—the collapse of the Soviet Union and the emergence of something new. It was the ’90s, marked by economic instability and crime. Yet, amidst all this chaos, children were growing up, needing attention, care, and guidance to make sense of their inner turmoil. Children should be treated with kindness, even if their preferences differ. Only through trust can we build healthy family dynamics and a prosperous society. It was incredibly difficult for me to broach this topic with my parents. We often sat in silence and sometimes stopped talking to each other altogether. Society views being LGBT as abnormal—it’s like having something branded on your forehead. Growing up with this notion makes you feel like a defective, shameful burden to your family. It becomes impossible to confide in your parents. There’s no foundation for it. There’s much work to be done, but societal attitudes need to evolve. That’s why many of us remain silent our entire lives. When I left Novosibirsk, my father said to me, «The whole village (our district) is already talking about you.»

— Maybe you should have considered running for office since everyone seemed to know about you already. Why go through all the campaigning? It’s interesting because everyone’s journey is unique. When people discuss why they’re leaving, especially LGBT individuals, it often revolves around the desire to blend into the anonymity of the city. But I believe that after the collapse of the Soviet Union, survival became the primary focus, and LGBT issues weren’t as prominent. Now, it might be less terrifying to be gay or lesbian than it is to support Ukraine or its preservation. So perhaps it’s somewhat easier for them to live now because there simply isn’t the time to crack down on people for their sexual orientation. That’s just my theory on the matter.

— I respectfully disagree. This is actually a prime time for cracking down on LGBT individuals, and it’s evident to all of us. Just think about the recent case where a girl was detained for five days simply for wearing rainbow earrings. A year ago, this would have been unthinkable. I mean, today it’s becoming normalized. Or consider the case of blogger Hilmy Forks, who was recently sentenced to three years in prison for «promoting LGBT propaganda» because he streamed in a feminine guise. Allegedly, he was accused of producing and disseminating pornographic material.

— Unfortunately, this trend persists, and it’s being propagated at the federal level. If there were policy changes in this regard, we’d surely see different outcomes. Even on federal channels, the educational programs they air for schools reflect this mentality.

— It’s not just about what’s on the channels; it’s the everyday reality of domestic life. It’s always been there. You could encounter homophobia at any moment—in any social setting, someone might crack a joke or say something derogatory. People don’t realize that a casually spoken word can inflict pain, offense, or even harm. There’s a severe lack of teaching about tolerance and how to handle language appropriately. We have a significant issue with this overall. Words like «churka», «khachik» (derogatory terms for a person of Central Asian or Caucasian descent), or «faggot» are thrown around without hesitation. These are parasitic words deeply embedded in Russian culture, brimming with hatred and superiority. People don’t hesitate to use them, but they’re dangerous words, you know? Words often translate into actions. It’s as if something is afflicting our society in Russia. We had the coronavirus, and while the disease may have subsided, the societal virus remains. This pervasive sense of defeat is palpable in people’s behavior. Our society needs some sort of inoculation against hatred.

You can listen to the full interview with Vladimir Kosarevsky in audio format on the NM newspaper’s channel at this link.